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Memory Alpha:Ten Forward/Archive 2005
Episode References I see everywhere differing styles of referencing episodes; and cannot find in the Manual of Style anything specific that denotes what the SOP is. Personally, on the articles I've worked on, I use: : In-Line: (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint") : or as a list: * VOY: "Caretaker" And while I ensure to maintain continuity within my own articular contributions; I do not see that within MA as a whole. I would like to keep an eye out and make conformation when I need to refarding episode references, but need first to know what the standard is. | THOR 21:38, 3 Feb 2005 (CET) : It won't help you when I tell you from the german Memory Alpha. I can't remind me of any rule of style that tells me how to arrange such references and so everyone has his own style. I once brought up the very same issue on the german 10F which led to (TNG: "Encounter at Farpoint"); italic to emphase on the meta-trek nature and quto-marks for titles. -- Florian K 11:13, 8 Feb 2005 (CET) : I'm still looking to get guidance on this as well as the same below, but I'm loathe to "nag"; have I addressed this issue in the wrong forum? | THOR 20:16, 23 Feb 2005 (GMT) :: That style is what has traditionally been used, since the start of the wiki, for referencing episodes. I will add something to this effect to Memory Alpha:Cite your sources, and possibly the Manual of Style. I have noticed the italicizing of said references creeping in, and have reverted to the original style when found for consistency. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 00:22, 24 Feb 2005 (GMT) ::: I'm still seeing users using italicization with episode references. I am hesitant to continually change them: checking both Memory Alpha:Cite your sources and Manual of Style this doesn't seem to have been added as official SOP; and as such I have no regulatory backing or standing to be making these changes other than this 10F thread. -- THOR 13:39, 18 Mar 2005 (EST) :::: Well, since it is said to emphasise book titles it is only logical to emphasise episode and movie titles as well. It does also merge with the style to indent and italicise background information. Keeping a list without italicisation is also an analogon to keeping an entire background section un-italicised. (''see: Episodenverweise) -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 14:06, 18 Mar 2005 (EST) ::: My take on this is as follows: I understand everyone's point here, but to me - despite "professional writing guides", it is, frankly, rather distracting when I am trying read an article and see non-italicized items that are from '''outside the "Trek-universe" POV', as I have yet to see a good explaination as to why it must be included inside the "Trek-universe" POV when it really belongs to ours (the outside). That certainly was not what was in mind when they designed the MLA guide -- that is jumping in and out of "reality". Natually if I see it in italics I will skip over it or click it if I wish to go to the page, otherwise there are several cases where in the middle of a paragraph there will be three long unitalicized episode references in a row and it really takes away from the natural flow of the fiction. --Gvsualan 22:06, 27 Feb 2005 (GMT) :::: I understand this argument, and have some sympathy with it; however, what I'' find distracting is inconsistency in the format between articles, or, worse, within a given article. If there were a consensus that all inline references should be in italics, I might support making a bot to make those changes (if such a thing is possible). However, as things stand now the majority of entries are in (roughly) MLA standard, which puts names of television series and films in italics, but puts individual episodes unitalicized in quotation marks. Barring a consensus that we should change this, I'm going to continue to put citations in the current standard form. I won't edit an article to change an italicized citation alone, but if I'm making other changes to an article I'll probably change the citations to the current standard while I'm at it. --Josiah Rowe 15:21, 28 Mar 2005 (EST) I went ahead and made some changes to Memory Alpha:Cite your sources about citations. I myself could not find what the preferred citation form should be so I put in the first and most seen, as far as I can tell, form -- Q 01:51, 28 Mar 2005 (EST) : That page ought to have something about film citation as well. The standard has been that the names of TV series and films are put in italics (per MLA form), but I hesitate to put that on the page myself until the subject has been aired a bit more fully here. --Josiah Rowe 15:21, 28 Mar 2005 (EST) : Maybe a short vote (for example over a ten day period) on the two styles to see which is the preferred one by the archivists. I did some quick research on citations and found several styles and some depend on if you are writing an article or a book. There is however something to be said to keep the citations styles between the different MA's the same. -- Q 04:18, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::::: I'm a big supporter of italics for all information that is out of Trek POV -- this includes episode names when the occur in or behind paragraphs. I know some users are making an effort to remove this style, but that seems preemptive -- there's never been a clear consensus on it. ::::: One think i'd like to do away with is italicizing alternate timelines -- the events of an alternate timeline don't take place from "our" POV, therefore they should not be styled so -- besides, there is always confusion over what is alternate -- for example, what happened on Earth in "Storm Front" is alternate, but the events that occurred aboard ship was "real" -- the people all went home remembering having lived that -- it was a "real" part of their lives and timeline that they visited another timeline, therefore those events arent covered ::::: Since alternate timelines are ambiguous anyway, i dont see any real way to conclude what really happened in the end of some of the more complex ones -- so italicizing them is a really uninformative and distracting feature. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:48, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT) :::::: I certainly recognize my name when it's ''not said, but I would like to clarify my position on this subject: :::::: I do no espouse to "support" one variety of reference standardization over another. I just want defined clarity on what the standard should be. I now make changes based on Memory_Alpha:Cite_your_sources, but beforehand I simply wanted some standard; I chose the variety that I did (the same that was added to the cite your sources page) because it's what I felt I saw more frequently and proliferously, therefore making it easier to change fewer pages to an already unofficially stated standard. :::::: As for what preferences I do have: I suppose I would prefer the italicization of all OOC (out of character) information (episode/movie references, background information, notes, bloopers, tidbits, etc) and the indention of alternate timelines/universes. I would support wiki-linking as frequently as the majority prefers, but personally lean towards once per article -- or once per section for articles long enough to garner tables of contents. That's my 3¢ — THOR 11:32, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT) :::::I certainly support indentation over italicization for alternate universe happenings. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 11:43, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT) Python Wikipedia Bot Memory Alpha is now being supported by the Python Wikipedia Bot Framework http://sourceforge.net/projects/pywikipediabot/. -- Head 11:34, 24 Feb 2005 (GMT) : After some research I found https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1118907&group_id=93107&atid=603141 and http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=6636372&forum_id=36014. It reads that this Bot is now enabled for Memory Alpha but I think it's not in use yet. Are there any plans for bot-policies what-so-ever? -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 12:35, 24 Feb 2005 (GMT) ::Could we please get some opinions on this topic? We of MA/de would like to use this bot in order to set interwiki links for episodes and categories. -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 10:04, 7 Mar 2005 (GMT) :::My main concern is that if it is used, will it have an effect on the performanc of MA ?. I often noticed that it can take 5+ seconds to load a page, from my point of view MA is sluggish. Using this bot might increase this IMHO -- Q 18:18, 9 Mar 2005 (GMT) ::::I just read some of the wikimedia articles about bots, and wouldn't be opposed to have ''some bots on MA as well. We should adopt these policies, though and, regarding the recent performance problems, the bot should definitely be throttled... -- Cid Highwind 20:05, 9 Mar 2005 (GMT) :::::True the server performence is one of the most valid argument against bots. On the it edited up to five pages per minute which sounds about fair if there are no other edits around. Due to the size of Memory Alpha only a few bots are necessary, I'd say one for interwiki links, one for categories (maybe) and another one for tables. In MA/de we are a bit ahead and already did set up a Policy. However there is still time to discuss this, because the bot framework has a minor bug with German Umlaute, so my main intention to use the bot as interwiki link putter is a bit delayed. -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 08:43, 10 Mar 2005 (GMT) : Speaking of performance, seems like all wikicities are currently running on ross.bomis.com, which is overloaded in some kind. Although other wikicities have reponse-times lower than 1 or 2 seconds. If you have a random Memory Alpha article, you can read something like this within the HTML-source: "Served by ross.bomis.com in 4.61 secs." If that would be something about database-size, Creatures-Wiki should have similar performance-issues. Must be something about Memory Alpha, since dutch, german an english versions seem to be slower than they should be. Perhaps it's all imaginary.. -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 13:01, 14 Mar 2005 (GMT) ::This is no longer the case since Memory Alpha and Wikicities are now running on three of their own servers in addition to that ross.bomis.com one. See Wikicities:Technical support for details. Angela 22:35, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) ::I'd support a regulation to put a restrictive throttle on bots here to prevent server flood -- but i think there's a lot that could be done with them. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 22:36, 26 Mar 2005 (EST) I went ahead to create the page Memory Alpha:Bot which is now a translation of the bot policy we did set up at MA/de. Angela did also put bot flags to User:Morn and User:DataMA, so that their edits can be removed from the recent changes. -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 07:01, 2 Apr 2005 (EST) : At the moment we are somewhat blocked in MA/de (and MA/nl) since both bots are "normal" users. No-one in MA:de or MA:nl has steward-privileges and we must wait until Jason will "promote" someone. Without bot-flag enabled, all batch-processes will penetrate the "recent changes" log which is bad for normal users (thinking of 200 changes a day or more). @Dan and Harry: Will you please set bot-flag as soon as possible on MA:de? -- Florian - ✍ talk 10:41, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT) Star Trek article Shouldn't there be an article that focuses on Star Trek as a whole? For example when people talk about 'Star Trek' they don't just mean the original series, but the original series, the spinoffs and the movies. Rebelstrike2005 11:46, 19 Mar 2005 (EST) : Good idea! That could also be about how Star Trek developed and what ups and downs came across, who was important and what was influenced by Star Trek. Perhaps we could arrange it by timelines, since this topic is very broad. "It's been a long road / Getting from there to here / It's been a long time / But my time is finally near." -- Florian - [[ :Florian K| ]] 05:06, 20 Mar 2005 (EST) :: It would not be too difficult would it? Rebelstrike2005 17:25, 20 Mar 2005 (EST) :::I see an article like this being parent to a category also -- the names Star Trek Franchise or Star Trek Production have been used, but i think the concept is "Star Trek as a whole" (from an "our universe," not "their universe" perspective). -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 09:39, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) ::::I'm a bit hesitant to suggest it, because it involves a major head article on this site, but the article Star Trek is a redirect to Star Trek: The Original Series... what if the article Star Trek became this new article, with a headline link to TOS? This way the simplest possible article title, Star Trek, would serve to define the franchise as a whole. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 15:47, 23 Mar 2005 (EST) :::::How about Star Trek being a disambugation page, that directs the user to Star Trek: The Original Series and something like Star Trek (franchise)? --Defiant | [[User talk:Defiant|''Talk]] 06:48, 25 Mar 2005 (EST) ::::::I think using the Star Trek page would be best. - Rebelstrike2005 14:58, 25 Mar 2005 (EST) :::::::I've reconsidered. I agree, although I think a link to The Original Series should be at the top of the Star Trek page. I'm worried about pages that already link to The Original Series using the Star Trek redirect. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 07:18, 26 Mar 2005 (EST) ::::::::We already have Timeline of Star Trek production. Perhaps an article entitled Star Trek production or Star Trek (production) or Star Trek (franchise) would be better then having this information on the Star Trek page. Many pages link to Star Trek when referring to TOS. Ottens 07:21, 26 Mar 2005 (EST) :::::I've looked at the "what links here" -- seems though a lot of the links the Star Trek are pretty general -- most people already link to TOS if they mean TOS. it would be a small size project to ensure that links to Star Trek are using the general sense of the term, but not impossible. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 13:42, 26 Mar 2005 (EST) ::::::I've started the sample article at Star Trek/temp. A couple of you have questioned the article existing at the location Star Trek, but I'd like you to take another look and see if it could work in the format I began. I also see this as being a great place to start a category that we discussed under the name "Meta-Trek," but which I also believe could be very well placed as Category:Star Trek, and linked to this page. ::::::Otherwise, we can move this article to whatever location is decided, but I really think it will pull the structure together to have an article like this, at the name i suggested -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 11:47, 29 Mar 2005 (EST) :::::Article has been enabled. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 15:48, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT) Do we need a mailinglist? Since we came to wikicities there's an option of mailing-lists (see left hand navigation). Do we need a mailing-list? We have wiki-pages (e.g. Ten Forwards) on all three languages, we have a message board, user talk pages... And though I like the idea of (one) mailing-list for all three versions to have a central announcement method for important stuff which could affect all of us, since the message board doesn't work; it's too inconvenient to have a regular look at the board plus there are just a few archivists. This mailing-list could be a way to announce last-minute upgardes or outages as well as wiki-wide problems. -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 05:20, 20 Mar 2005 (EST) :Although the mailing list link is there, there isn't currently a list configured for this wiki, so please let me know if you do need it and I can create one then. Angela 22:33, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) templates Watching Template:Ranks being made, and watching Curps' creation of Template:DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual (regardless of his vandalistic work thus far), I was wondering what the criterium or rules dictating the creation of Templates is. -- THOR 00:13, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) :As far as I am aware, we don't have any strict policies regarding the creation of content templates. Just use common sense (''Is this content really useful as a template?), add the template to the appropriate list (Memory Alpha:Navigational templates) and expect "your" template to be edited by others, just as any other contribution. The "dual licensing" template is something completely different, however. I personally think we shouldn't start this, and something as important as this does at least need a consensus in my opinion (See below). -- Cid Highwind 06:09, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) ::I agree -- Template:Ranks and others like it, such as Template:Dax, were created to correlate data in articles that occur in short series -- if someone created one that didnt work, it would be voted down or deprecated, or it would be fixed to conform to a better style (to fit canon, for example, or brevity) -- just like a regular article that was off topic. ::Licensing issues and other templates dealing with our administration structure should remain in the province of the bureaucrats though -- an archivist who wishes to enact changes in basic structures of the site like licenses and structure, should more properly do so through a discussion here or a related talk page, not by creating an anomalous template page -- that kind of action is what requires approval. This user is banned anyway, so i dont think this was a serious edit -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 10:17, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) ::: This is probably the best place to bring this up, in MA/de we created several new navigational templates recently. Most notably those on the series pages (see de:TNG Staffel 2). I find them quite useful and think it would be a nice idea for MA/en too... -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 10:27, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) ::Yes -- i've seen some really complex ones in use at wikipedia and at http://babylon5.wikicities.com/ -- in particular, i'd like to add some sort of season browser template -- their episode articles contain a long episode template which is a few degrees more complex than i've ever seen before. -- Captain Mike K. Bartel 10:41, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) Copied Wikipedia content In the last day or two, we got several new members. Most of their contributions seem to be copied directly from Wikipedia, including off-topic articles such as Wikipedia, their own user pages (User:Curps, User:Everyking, for example) and even a dual licensing template that I think shouldn't be here, either. If you read this (and especially if you are indeed administrators on Wikipedia, as your user pages suggest), please take the time to read MA's policies and guidelines, which are sometimes different from those at Wikipedia. To everyone else, please have an eye on the "Recent changes" - we really don't need even more of those copyvios. -- Cid Highwind 06:09, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) :Last night the account of User:Curps was used to create or overwrite over 250 articles with the line "Spocky is gay". Maybe the edits here are connected -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 09:29, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) Thanks for that information, Kobi - he vandalized one article in the same way here. I already contacted the Wikipedia administrator "Curps" and hope he'll reply soon. I don't think that this is the same guy, so I will now block our Curps until this is sorted out. -- Cid Highwind 09:59, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) : From WP: The account "Curps" on Memory Alpha is not me. I would appreciate it if that account was blocked and the user page edited to reflect that it is an impostor. -- Curps 15:37, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC) : -- THOR 10:09, 21 Mar 2005 (EST) Cookies problem Today I am trying to log on to MA but it keeps on telling me that I have to enable cookies. Problem is that I allow cookies and yesterday loging on worked perfectly. Tried Mozilla,Firefox.IE all refuses to log on. Something wrong on MA ? -- Q : I'm having the same problem, as does DarkHorizon (Link) I couldn't edit the articles until I did log out, and then all logins did fail again -- Kobi :: I never log out, so whenever I come to this site I'm always logged in. Every change I attempt to make followed by clicking "save page" will bring up the preview page but wont actually save it. I have been able to upload pictures, but that seems to be the limit of my ability. I have alo attempted to log out and save my edits, but to no avail. -- Gvsualan ::If you can read this, then clearing out my cookie jar seems to have cured that... -- Gvsualan (12:43 EST) :::Tried that to, no such luck. Login still asks for enableing cookies. -- Q ::::Well I can't log back in either, but I am still able to do "work" within the site. I'm just unable to see what the changes look like unless I look at the history and compare to what I just edited - at least in the cases of the pages I have already looked at when I was logged in. Pages that I hadn't look at when I was logged in, or recently, show the changes immediately. -- Gvsualan :I, in contrary, can't log out on MA/de. At first, the standard-logout-message is displayed, the top of the page shows "Create an account or log in". But when I visit the next page, I'm logged in again. Cleared the cache, no success. When I use the "log in"-link, I get the same message as all of you. However, the required cookies are saved on my computer. -- FProg :: I feel very uncomfortable with this kind of "strange problems". Anyway, the problem seem sto be solved (see Bug One Hundred). Thanks to Angela and Jason for helping out! -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 02:08, 23 Mar 2005 (EST) '''www'.memory-alpha.org A few hours ago I noticed that the webserver refuses to connect on www.memory-alpha.org. A simple memory-alpha.org works. The flawed webserver-configuration must be with the server-IP 207.142.131.209, the other IP 207.142.131.251 works fine. I did edit my HOSTS file (not recommended) to have "207.142.131.251 www.memory-alpha.org" in order to connect to www.memory-alpha.org again, since this is the domain, all interwiki-links are working with. Is this something Dan and Eloquence can fix or is it wikicities (Angela / Jason)? -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 03:19, 26 Mar 2005 (EST) :This is fixed now. Sorry for the delay. Angela 22:30, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) MA/nl Hi I just hit the wrong link and was brought to MA/nl. I had to notice that Gebruiker:Buttfucker has removed content of ~100 articles and also posted pornography. Isn't there someone responsible for that wiki because that vandalism was on the 25th! -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 03:42, 29 Mar 2005 (EST) :I've seen it, but as my exams are comming up, I don't have the time to correct it. i'm going to need other editors on Dutch MA te help me out. So far, however, I haven't seen more than two or three editors work on MA at a time. Any suggestions? -- Redge | [[User talk:Redge|''Talk]] 05:44, 29 Mar 2005 (EST) :I'm sure that some of the MA/en and /de admins (me included) could check for the most obvious vandalism from time to time if you would grant us admin rights there. If there really aren't any contributors at the time, though, it might be best to put that part of MA "on hold" (if possible)... -- Cid Highwind 08:33, 29 Mar 2005 (EST) : As long as my dutch isn't in shape, I just can assist as a spam-detector. Although, I'de love to see more dutch users online to edit and expand. -- Florian - [[ :Florian K|'' ]] 11:00, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) :Any help is welcome, but I don´t know how we can get more Dutch to the Dutch MA. I´ve tried pointing the site out on a few Star trek sites I know, but it didn´t meet with much enthousiasm. I theorize this is because most Dutch trekkies know enough English not to need a Dutch translation. -- Redge | [[User talk:Redge|''Talk]] 11:06, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT) :I´m also having a bug in the MA/nl skin I´d hoped someone could help us with. All common text is colored black in stead of white. Where do I fix that? -- Redge | ''Talk'' 11:42, 3 Apr 2005 (EDT) :: Best thing to have a synchronized CSS for all languages will be to insert a template-tag into those monobook.css/LANG pages, see Overleg MediaWiki:Monobook.css/de. This is an open issue here, too. -- Florian - ✍ talk 04:18, 14 Apr 2005 (EDT) Changing Series Pages I really think there should be a voting system for changing the long series pages, much like the Featured Articles system. These pages are a major part of MA, and if this was done, it would help to avoid vandalism. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 12:16, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) :If users would discuss page changes rather than just reverting edits without explanation as you did, perhaps it would be more productive. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 12:47, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) Exactly! I very strongly believe that people should discuss changes, before they are made and that significant changes to the series pages ought be done democratically. It seems to me like we're both arguing for similar things here, Mike! I think the TOS and TNG pages should be returned to how they were before you edited them, so a vote can be taken on whether they stay like that, or if the changes you suggest are made. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 12:57, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) :I understand Defiant's point, you should make your changes to Star Trek: The Original Series/temp, work out the layout and then ask if some improvements could be made. For example I think the template:TOS-Season3 is a cool idea, however I personally don't like the numbered scheme. I suggest these edits are on hold for a while until this is discussed -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 13:29, 30 Mar 2005 (EST) Strange sign Why do I keep seeing this sign - "‿" (a square or rectangle)? Does anyone know? Does anyone else see lots of this sign, or is it a problem with Internet Explorer (which I use) maybe? --Defiant | ''Talk'' 08:13, 1 Apr 2005 (EST) : I see a bracket that is lies on the ground. Somehow reminds me of a sign that teachers make when a word has to be written to‿gether ... but I see it for the first time in Memory Alpha -- Kobi - [[ :Kobi|( )]] 09:29, 1 Apr 2005 (EST) :: I used Mozilla, where the sign appears as a curved underline. It seems to be that only Internet Explorer displays the symbol as a square. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 17:58, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT) DVD department? An idea - why don't we have a DVD section, like the books and games departments we have already? We could cover subjects like Special Features and list Seasons, arranged in the order they are in on the DVDs? --Defiant | ''Talk'' 17:32, 1 Apr 2005 (EST) :: Could we have the DVD info at both a DVD page and on the season pages? --Rebelstrike2005 17:39, 1 Apr 2005 (EST) Needs a title . . . DVD? (Although it's an abbreviation of Digital Versatile Disc, DVD is probably more commonly known as the correct term) --Defiant | ''Talk'' 05:52, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) I started to make such a page, but the information would be too much. I think it would be better and easier to edit if there individual pages for the different seasons. These could then be linked to on the Season pages. For example, TNG Season 1 could link to TNG Season 1 DVD (or some other name). The DVD pages could still be linked to on the DVD page, however, as listed under their relevant series name. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 11:17, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT) :Could someone please place a link to the DVD department on the Main Page, under "Other Sources"? --Defiant | ''Talk'' 14:59, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT) Star Trek Related Music? We already have a section on such non-canon works such as books and games. Should we create a new section for music about Star Trek? For example Warp 11, No Kill I, Sto-Vo-Kor, and any other Star Trek related bands or music could get pages that fall into this section. --docdude316 22:48, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT) :These would be fandom bands, unlicensed works, correct? These aren't something MA accepts at this time. Licensed works are fine for inclusion in the Trek Franchise area, but not these. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 08:59, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) Battle Boxes I have noted a new user implementing so-called "battle boxes" into all our major battle pages. Whilst I understand what the user is trying to do, I find these inclusions both distracting and badly-designed, and generally unsuitable for this reference. I would note to this user (following his edit summaries of "adding Wikipedia-style battle table") that MA is not Wikipedia, and so does not follow the same style conventions. I have reverted for now, but wish to get further opinion from the rest of the Archivists. Please see http://memory-alpha.org/en/index.php?title=Operation_Return&oldid=74174 for an example. -- Michael Warren | ''Talk'' 08:59, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) : I'd support the inclusion of a standardized sidebar which is useful to the kind of information our battle articles contain -- for example, the Wikipedia version lists casualties, there are only three or four Trek battles that we have reliable casualty numbers. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 10:29, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :: I'd support it as well. I'd like to find a format that would better accomodate/incorporate the MA styling, but I think they could certainly work out well. We could gen up a standardized template based on the MA style and put it up on Memory Alpha:Article templates. — THOR 11:18, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :I'd recommend using the standard wiki-sidebar class table -- using the "class" modifier probably allows us to reformat all the sidebar tables on the sit simply by updating the style sheet -- so that's a non-issue. Just what information to put in. List of composers Could pages be created like the list of director pages for all of the people who composed music for the series and movies? -Rebelstrike2005 11:03, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :I'd say yes -- this is a natural outgrowth of our production information -- but suitable names for each article need to be found. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk 11:07, 7 Apr 2005 (EDT) :: I was just thinking of just List of DS9 composers :: Sounds like a good idea to me. Why don't we start articles like this for the many other people involved in certain aspects of Star Trek? Enzo Aquarius 18:01, 8 Apr 2005 (EDT) :: Good idea, I was also thinking of a list of writers but thought it might be too long -- Rebelstrike2005 06:12, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::: Maybe we could have a Star Trek production staff list? -- Rebelstrike2005 18:05, 13 Apr 2005 (EDT) Protecting pages There is a user - Captain Mike K. Bartel - who keeps "protecting" pages. I find this extremely irritating and needless! Another user added spoiler images from "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part I", so "Captain" Mike froze all the pages of Enterprise episodes still to be aired! I am outraged by this user's behaviour and feel that this over-protecting of pages is almost as disruptive as vandalism. For example, some of the background information on the previously mentioned page is inaccurate (the episode is directed by James L. Conway, not Marvin V. Rush). Unfortunately, that error cannot be corrected as the page is frozen. Even "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II" (which Rush did direct) is also protected, so that information cannot be added to that page either. It would be an entirely different case if only the first episode in the two-parter was frozen, but to protect all of the following episodes in Season 4 is particularly disruptive. I strongly believe that any user who is given the ability and the right to protect pages should be responsible enough not to abuse that right. --Defiant | ''Talk'' 07:52, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) :I don't think that this is a case of "over-protecting". We have a clear spoiler policy that keeps getting violated - in fact, I think that even the information presented on those pages right now might be too much information. These six protected pages most probably are the last episodes of Enterprise, and I really don't want to be spoiled here. I'm sure Mike (or another Administrator) will unprotect these pages immediately after the episode aired. -- Cid Highwind 08:01, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::Thanks Cid -- My first instinct was to delete the pages. I just protected the pages because they do contain some valuable information archivists have worked on. ::I think it was a responsible use of protection, but if users continue to have a problem with the content already in those pages, the next step is deletion. I have to point out that this is clear qualification for speedy deletion, as DarkHorizon demonstrated with the images, so if I chose to do that it would be a responsible use of my ability to delete pages, not an abuse. ::I was just trying to consider the contributions of Archivists who had already worked on them. I have to emphasize this was not an abuse of my administrator rights, but an abuse on the spoiler policy, that I was correcting. -- Captain Mike K. Barteltalk :::I concur. There are fans who would like to read up on background information, but do not want to read the entire story line of an episode yet. Protecting pages is preferable over deletion as well as over not having these pages protected, since MA policy concerning spoilers is often violated. Ottens 11:22, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) ::::I agree - protect pages rather than delete them. I also find it more acceptable now that the information can be changed or added on the talk pages for the episodes. Sorry if it seems like my arguments are personal, against Captain Bartel in particular (who was very helpful with things like the ranks of the Nazi officers in "Storm Front"). --Defiant | ''Talk'' 12:19, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT)